Hi All,

For those that haven't seen my related post, I have unfortunately blown the engine on my 2007 ZX-14 (33,000kms).
I have just bought a replacement 2009 engine (13,000kms) that will be installed by a recommended race mechanic.
I won't be using my usual Kawasaki Service dealer as I won't go back there again for a number of reasons.
I just couldn't scrap the bike after all the good times on it and getting it to exactly how I wanted it.

I wish I could do it myself but just don't feel confident enough.

Has anyone else on the forum done something similar?

If so what was the good, the bad and the ugly, what should I watch out for and how did the results go?

Got to admit I'm a bit nervous about having spent the sort of money I just did and now having a bike that is not as original...

* Last updated by: yannih on 7/21/2014 @ 1:22 AM *

Don't forget to send your insurance co the details of the new motor etc.

Neil

The 09 should shoe right in. There might be a shop manual on line, follow the bolt torque specs and follow the preload at the engine to frame hanger adjust. The guy should know how to set that up if he's been around.

I wish I could do it myself but just don't feel confident enough.

First of all, get a Kawasaki ZX-14 Service Manual. Even if you don't swap the engine yourself, this will be your friend for as long as you own the bike. You can easily find used ones for sale at the usual places, there are PDFs you can download, you can even get a brand-new one from Kawasaki.

There is a chapter on engine remove and replace (R&R). Sit down with the book and read it. The manual will refer you to other sections for details on procedures that must be performed to get the engine out. It's just a series of relatively simple steps that you perform one at a time. In other words, while the idea of swapping an engine is daunting, it's actually just a series of simple steps that I have no doubt that you could perform.

There are two hurdles that you need to consider though:

1) Do I have space to do this work? Since you probably work to support your ZX-14 habit, you probably will take at least a few days to swap the engines. So be sure you have a space where a partially disassembled bike will be secure and the parts you're removed can remain undisturbed.

2) Do you have the tools? In most cases just the basic mechanic's tools are what you will use the most but if you are missing some, the money you might pay the mechanic can be used to purchase tools that will probably serve you the rest of your life. Often the SvC manual will refer to "special" tools but in most cases these are not absolutely necessary and other common tools, can be used.

I encourage you to consider doing this yourself. You will learn a lot and will gain a new understanding of your ZX-14's inner workings. Besides, the engine is already blown, how much worse can you make it now?

Thanks jwh20.

I have a 2006-2007 ZX-14 service manual.
However this does not advise what should be considered when installing a 2009 engine into a 2007 bike.
My biggest concern is the ECU. Is the 2009 engine compatible to the 2007 ECU?
Issues such as these are concerning me.

Look at the externals as everything fits from 2006 to 2011, meaning, everything is interchangeable sans the clutch basket/crank change from straight cut to radial cut. So internal wise, you cannot swap those out between years you have. The engine has no clue what it's firing off, so no harm no foul with the telemetry and ECU, that all works no prob.

* Last updated by: Hub on 7/22/2014 @ 6:05 AM *

Good news.
Thanks Hub.
I wasn't sure if the 2009 ECU was going to also have to be purchased as I thought the engine mapping for a 2009 engine was different from a 2007.

* Last updated by: yannih on 7/22/2014 @ 6:12 AM *

The one big clue is the shop manual did not change till 2012. So any electrical value would have to match the manual if we discuss 1st gen. Only subtle changes like muffler internals (cat) and say a few paint schemes along the way, a sub cell changed here so the actuator acts faster, a fuel cell there so there is slight hp gain thru the years. Somewhere along the lines of flashy paint or flash and paint.

My biggest concern is the ECU. Is the 2009 engine compatible to the 2007 ECU?
Issues such as these are concerning me.

ECU must be matched to motor year as the fueling requirements are different. Injectors are different in the two sets of model years, 440cc in the 06,07 compared to the 2008, 11 s 330 cc. You should Reflash over to match bike year or buy new ECU or Dyno Tune with PCV to get fueling correct..... Fly opening, timing also different.

The engine has no clue what it's firing off, so no harm no foul with the telemetry and ECU, that all works no prob.

Works but AFR #'s all wrong. Friend showed up with 2010 model year, Bike had 2008 motor with a 2007 ECU. It did not run right. Relfashed all bin files over which converted this ECU into a 2008,11. Simple fix.

Hi Romans,
So the literal ECU unit hardware is the same but mapping on it is different.
Is the standard 2009 mapping available to update my 2007 ECU and can my mechanic do this?
You advise it's a simple fix. Does the unit have to be sent away or can it be done onsite as a download?
I know PC's are an option and I have one on my bike but that will need remapping as it has an old map for my old engine setup but I would like to get the ECU correct upfront as a base.

Sorry if my questions are a bit basic but I want to be across what is being done and make sure all is correct with this engine change as its costing a fair amount of money.

* Last updated by: yannih on 7/22/2014 @ 3:32 PM *

Hold on, hold on. Listen to the combos and listen to what I am saying:

Longblock: You are not listening to turtle.
Injector: Is this another communication breakdown?

Longblock: Appears to be. Look I was sold as a full engine with or without ECU?
Injector: I bought you as a long block and that means the head and everything.

Longblock: Do I have a throttle body on me?
Injector: No.

Longblock: Do I have an ECU that came with me?
Injector: No.

Longblock: Then, if my cams are, my pistons are, every last part has the same part number, why won't I work?
Injector: A different throttle body than mine?

Longblock: Correct, now you are getting involved with cc's and maps.
Injector: You mean if I use my own throttle body, the same ECU, the engine has no clue what is pumping thru?

Longblock: Correct. One more time. I am part for part are my engine parts, sans the crank and outer clutch basket.
Injector: Okay, I see.

Longblock: So the deal you are looking at is to look at the parts pages between years and figure out how...
Injector:... How I better watch out how and what I read on the net and go to the parts pages for the answers?

Longblock: Parts for parts if turtle said find the same updated valve cover and same head gasket is same-same.
Injector: Same as I better pay attention or I'm going to pay out the ass?

Longblock: You said it.
Injector: Not me!

'07 Engine: 1352cc
'09 Engine: 1352cc

'07 Inj440cc/ECU mapped to cc-size (not engine cc)
'09 Inj330cc/ECU mapped to cc-size (not engine cc)

Interchangeability:

'07 Engine: 1352cc + '07 Inj440cc/ECU mapped to cc-size or '09 Inj330cc/ECU mapped to cc-size.
'09 Engine: 1352cc + '07 Inj440cc/ECU mapped to cc-size or '09 Inj330cc/ECU mapped to cc-size.

'07 Engine: 1352cc + '07 Inj440cc + 09 Inj330cc/ECU mapped to cc-size = Rich
'09 Engine: 1352cc + '09 Inj330cc/ECU mapped to cc-size + '07 Inj440cc/ECU mapped to cc-size = Lean

'09 Engine: 1352cc + '07 Inj440cc/ECU mapped to cc-size = I think I X'd my Y and it's just another Z. So if I look at the interchangeability to turtlebility are we on the same shell because it's going to page from here we do not see the logic.

Signed,

NOLTT

Revised: hag, don't get old!

* Last updated by: Hub on 7/22/2014 @ 7:21 PM *

Perhaps this helps.
Here's two pics of what I am getting...

1. I am not about to go thru all this engine purchase without a 'floor' compression test or I chase my tail starting it.
2. Me or my race helper better check compression, because right now it's the easiest to get to.
3. I take a jumper cable and if that came with a starter motor in place, I do not want to arc the stud.
4. I do not want to arc the battery posts. I'll use something hidden on the engine block/case/head as the sacrificial aluminum fling/burnt = Ground.

5. After the compression, I have no clue how much beating those miles were, so I am now with valve cover off.
6. I am checking the valves and oh look what I have... More shims off the old bike. I will spec this '09 before deploying the engine into service. In other words, set the valve after the compression so you can tell if one is bent, and/or, has extra clearance than the others [if no compression test].

Signed,

* Last updated by: Hub on 7/22/2014 @ 5:12 PM *

Hi Hub,

I am happy to advise that compression and valve clearances will be checked before the engine is installed.
If not or if there is an issue I don't buy the motor.
See.
Sometimes I do listen to you.

But has your mind changed on the ECU mapping after looking at what is included with this motor?
I understand the 2007 ECU is no different to the 2009 hardware wise, but there seems to be differing views on remapping the 2007 ECU or not.
I am confused as the secondary valves open earlier on the 2009 than on the 2007 model and I thought that came from different mapping.
If you don't change the map, you don't change to the upgrades on the 2009 engine?

I am certainly not arguing with you as it is obvious you are light years in front of me ZX14 technical wise.
Just asking so I can try and understand.

* Last updated by: yannih on 7/22/2014 @ 5:14 PM *

Are the exhaust ports dry?

1. Wet = Guides or pistons.
2. Dry = Buy side.

3. Ex. Port: is black and gray clean on the other port = PAIR in play, assume left stock.
4. Plugs = Do they look oil wet and can you take them out or are they frozen thru electrolysis.

I am confused as the secondary valves open earlier on the 2009 than on the 2007 model and I thought that came from different mapping.

If you don't change the map, you don't change to the upgrades on the 2009 engine?

* Last updated by: Hub on 7/22/2014 @ 5:35 PM *

Okay.
Thanks again Hub.

By the way, they are doing a leak test as well...

Even better. Ask for the numbers. YW

I will.
However they said anything under 10% leakage is acceptable but it should be less than that for a 2009 engine that has done 13,00kms...

^^^Yes, Hub, the 07 ECU is programmed for an 07. It will continue to open the flies on the 09 motor as though the motor was an 07. ...right? He should remove the flies anyway (and this is the perfect time - remove 07 engine, pull flies - no worry of dropping a screw into the motor).

The 09 motor has a revised piston dome. Will this affect mapping requirements? If so, 07 T-bodies and 07 mapping are going to be tricky to get to work with the 09 engine.

The 07 T-bodies have 6 hole injectors and the 09 T-bodies have 8 holes. Is the t-body bore the same diameter between 07 and 09? Looks like he plans on sticking with the 07 throttle bodies with the 09 motor. The 07 T-bodies probably deliver fuel differently than 09 T-bodies would and thus require 07 mapping. Mapping is just a fuel amount program correlating to throttle opening/rpm/gear. AS far as mapping goes, he would be best to have a PC or flash on there anyway. With 2007 ECU and 2007 T-bodies and 09 motor, pull flies run a flies out map for an 07, hopefully the revised piston dome does not make much difference.

Friend showed up with 2010 model year, Bike had 2008 motor with a 2007 ECU. It did not run right. Relfashed all bin files over which converted this ECU into a 2008,11. Simple fix.

I think the safest thing to do would be to put 08-11 T-bodies in with the 08-11 motor. Then flash the ECU to 08-11 mapping. Then he has himself an updated engine, no guesswork.

* Last updated by: Rook on 7/22/2014 @ 6:13 PM *

Hi Rook,

Flies were removed long ago on the 2007 and I was running a related Jeffo map on my PCIII to safeguard against leaning.

Then all we have to worry about with the T-bodies are the #/size of injector holes and the bore. If they are irrelevant, then I guess you stick with your 07 T-bodies.

The revised piston is still debatable.

I admit it.
I am a very simple man.

And for the very first time on this forum I am completely confused...

The 09 motor has a revised piston dome. Will this affect mapping requirements?

Why touch the stock ECU if the subs are removed? Why flash the ECU if the guy is looking to save money. '06 wheelies sooner than the '08. I rather backdate the ECU to first gen/subs out.